Re: DoS extended edition recommendations

by azriel Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:31 pm

I liked Leggy's weird horse flip, I expect something like that from an Elf, & not just ANY Elf, Oh no, A PRINCELY Elf Very Happy

by Sinister71 Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:33 pm

azriel wrote: I liked Leggy's weird horse flip, I expect something like that from an Elf, & not just ANY Elf, Oh no, A PRINCELY Elf

LOL it wasn't a deal breaker on the films Azriel it just looked out of place to me and unnatural. Saucy Wink

by azriel Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:40 pm

by BN.filmz Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:00 pm

halfwise wrote:
Funny that on this forum our opinions on both the bloat and disorganization the opinions on this forum are running about 10 to 1 against you, though it has to be admitted that on TORN it's running about 10 to 1 for you. May be group think on both forums. With Rotten Tomatoes giving an audience approval of 86% it looks like TORN has the prevailing opinion.

And yet...current popular opinion isn't the judgement of history. I feel deeply that the Hobbit movies will not stand the test of time, in fact will be viewed with some confusion along the lines of "That was supposed to be the HOBBIT?!" I may be wrong, the Wizard of Oz redefined the story, for it's NOT what's in the book.

Most moviegoers don't care about the book, and they don't care, if the book has been changed a lot or just a little - all they care about is, if they movies work. I like the book, and I think, that it's full of wonderful ideas, but many of those ideas have been improved and things have been expanded. The tone and style has also been changed, so it fits better with the LOTR film trilogy. There is also much more character development in the films. ... That's why I think, that Peter Jackson's version of the story is better.

Will the Hobbit films stand the test of time? Are they faithful to the book? The answer to the first question has got NOTHING to do with the answer to the second question. It's two entirely different matters.

by BN.filmz Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:11 pm

Sinister71 wrote:
Well, since none of the Hobbit films feel "bloated" in any sense of the word, and since I haven't seen any "CGI shots that look terrible" or "purposeless shots" (and I've seen both films more than 10 times), I must conclude, that this so-called "unorganized" project, you're talking about, ended up as an amazingly well organized project, and it turned out to be one of the greatest films ever made.

well that's an OPINION not one many around here will share.

... which is completely irrelevant and of no importance what-so-ever.

The Hobbit films are nothing but bloated and filled with horrible CGI.

No. Just no.

Even on TORn, many people consider them to be a step down from LOTR.
That's cause they are and there isn't any way to deny it

And many other people acknowledge, that the Hobbit films are just a good as the LOTR films, when it comes to the basic quality. The only reason why I personally like the LOTR films better, is that the story is more interesting; it's darker and more emotional.[/quote]

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:19 pm

Most moviegoers don't care about the book, and they don't care, if the book has been changed a lot or just a little - all they care about is, if they movies work.- BN

This is true. Thing is places like this are a forum about Tolkien, including the films, so you are unlikely to find many folk who are only moviegoers. Naturally therefore our perspective is that of how well do they adapt the book we love?
And the answer to that is very badly.

Sometimes its small things- someone mentioned recently the use of 'We are Legion' in TH, a distinctly Christian idea and explicitly so, despite Tolkien being on record as saying he did not want any overt Christianity in his work. Sometimes its big stuff, like completely rewriting a character like Thorin or changing the main characters story arc.
Or having large parts of the running time all about characters they have just made up out of thin air.

As to whether the 'movies work' that one is subjective and a matter of opinion, for the most part.
Obviously I dont think they do. I think the way in which they were made, the lack of a clear vision for what they were about, the constant last minute changes and decisions, the poor quality of the script, the obviously rushed cgi in many places all have harmed the end product in a way which can clearly be seen on the screen, and in particular in the scripting.
That of course is my opinion.

'Will the Hobbit films stand the test of time? Are they faithful to the book? The answer to the first question has got NOTHING to do with the answer to the second question. It's two entirely different matters.'

I wouldnt say they had nothing to do with each other. The book has remained popular for ove half a century, so in theory a film which tells the book story could be just as loved for just as long.
The film is so different form the source material there is nothing to really base its likely longevity on.
But as I think it lacks all the charm and simplicity and yet misses the depth of the book, whilst at the same time suffering all the problems brought about by the manner in which it was produced means I dont believe it will. It will just be another in a long list of not very memorable early 2000's cgi fests devoid of any real soul or purpose. It could sit well on a shelf alongside the likes of the remake of Clash of the Titans. Style over substance clumsily executed.

by Forest Shepherd Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:28 pm

Sinister71 wrote: Maybe its all the unbelievable OTT action in the Hobbit that pulls them right out and into the viewers face. I'm waiting for TBO5A for Legolas to pull out his cape and take out half the forces by himself since everyone knows the BO5A was the BIGGEST battle in middle earth history. At least it looks that way in Jackson's world.

I too saw the "Defining Chapter" letters on one of the recent trailers, but I don't think the escalation of scale that we saw from TT to RotK will necessarily carry over to this upcoming battle-film.
There will be more variety in combatants than in RotK, perhaps, but the actual number of those involved does not appear to be greatly exaggerated beyond what we should expect. We've only seen the individual armies one at a time in the trailer, and there were not a terribly vast number of bats, or elves, or orcs. There were a large number of orcs, and the trailer attempted to achieve the same flavour as trailers for RotK, but the actual number of combatants is still far less in BotFA.

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Most moviegoers don't care about the book, and they don't care, if the book has been changed a lot or just a little - all they care about is, if they movies work. I like the book, and I think, that it's full of wonderful ideas, but many of those ideas have been improved and things have been expanded.

Again opinion... none of this if fact or even able to be proved as fact. That is your opinion BN. one your welcome to, but not one that has to be shared. Peter Jackson did nothing to improve the story in MY opinion. From a storytelling point of view all he did was confuse things and muddy a clear cohesive narrative. His films can't even decide which way they want to go.

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:03 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:
Sinister71 wrote: Maybe its all the unbelievable OTT action in the Hobbit that pulls them right out and into the viewers face. I'm waiting for TBO5A for Legolas to pull out his cape and take out half the forces by himself since everyone knows the BO5A was the BIGGEST battle in middle earth history. At least it looks that way in Jackson's world.
I too saw the "Defining Chapter" letters on one of the recent trailers, but I don't think the escalation of scale that we saw from TT to RotK will necessarily carry over to this upcoming battle-film.
There will be more variety in combatants than in RotK, perhaps, but the actual number of those involved does not appear to be greatly exaggerated beyond what we should expect. We've only seen the individual armies one at a time in the trailer, and there were not a terribly vast number of bats, or elves, or orcs. There were a large number of orcs, and the trailer attempted to achieve the same flavour as trailers for RotK, but the actual number of combatants is still far less in BotFA.

to me it looked more massive than the battles in LOTR. Maybe it is just the many different "types" of combatants but it just looked a bit over blown to me. again that's just my personal perspective Forest. We'll just have to see when the film comes out if its blown out of proportion or not. I'm hoping not nothing worse IMO than having the biggest battle of all 6 films be in the middle of them.

by malickfan Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:04 pm

So...has anyone actually bought the extended edition? Thoughts or comments?

I've heard pretty good things about some of the additional scenes and Special Features, but I'm more inclined to wait for the 'Big Box Set' of the two trilogies (knowing WB this will be a Blu Ray exclusive) or a sale before shelling out.

by Forest Shepherd Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:07 pm

Well, do I have to go pull some screenshots?
Because there's a flaming truckload of orcs on Pelennor Fields. I think you may be forgetting the scale used there.

I think part of our (because my reaction is not very positive either) negative reaction may be the mechanized-looking elves. Nowhere in Tolkien does it say that the elves were so precise in their battle lines that they spread out like a mathematical grid.

by malickfan Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:11 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:Nowhere in Tolkien does it say that the elves were so precise in their battle lines that they spread out like a mathematical grid.

I've got to admit I do find the Elves in the films kinda hard to take seriously, the seem simultaneously poised for battle, and permanently ready for a hair appointment, I always pictured them more akin to Celtic Warriors than the mathematical hippies Pj gave us.

by Forest Shepherd Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:18 pm

Well I disagree. They're not hippies at all.
Especially in this Hobbit trilogy, they're primary role is to ~~kili~~ kill things.

But their precision in battle is meant to be a result of their long years of training and martial prowess, especially as it contrasted with the men of Helm's Deep in the Two Towers. That same (heartless) physicality is apparently going to be part of the elves in the Hobbit.
But we will see. As someone else posted already, the elves we saw in battle-lines already were digital stand-in copies.

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:51 pm

malickfan wrote:So...has anyone actually bought the extended edition? Thoughts or comments?

I've heard pretty good things about some of the additional scenes and Special Features, but I'm more inclined to wait for the 'Big Box Set' of the two trilogies (knowing WB this will be a Blu Ray exclusive) or a sale before shelling out.

Ive got the EE. the best part is the bonus footage included in the behind the scenes stuff. So much more interesting than the actual film. Some of the cut material is more like the book and they cut it because it made their made up crap look bad.

by malickfan Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:55 pm

Sinister71 wrote: Some of the cut material is more like the book and they cut it because it made their made up crap look bad.

Sounds about right, though to be fair the reshoots/3 film split probably had the most impact on DOS-after Thorin forgave Bilbo at the end of AUJ I guess they didn't have alot to work with in their arc, so expanding on Tauriel/Legolas was probably a more interesting way for the casual viewer to see the storyline unfold I guess. I'm looking forward to Beorn and Thrain the most, but I'm still not totally inclined to buy it...

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:03 pm

The Thrain parts are laughable to be honest, not very good and just feel too drawn out. The new stuff with Beorn is pretty good. At least some more book made it into the film as Gandalf introduces the dwarfs in pairs, till like the last 4 come running out. With Thorin once again taking up the rear for dramatic effect. Which leads into the TE where Beorn says "your the one they call Oakenshield" plus a nice scene with Gandalf talking to Beorn about DolGuldur and the "tombs in the High Fells" which adds abit for that story arc.

by bungobaggins Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:05 pm

I liked most of the Thrain stuff, except the Wilhelm scream pretty much ruined it. Shrugging

by malickfan Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:09 pm

Sinister71 wrote:The Thrain parts are laughable to be honest, not very good and just feel too drawn outI was quite surprised they got Anthony Sher to do it, he's not exactly the type of actor you'd expect to crop up in these things. I was aminly interested in Thrain due to waiting 3 years to see the blooming scene.... The new stuff with Beorn is pretty goodGood to hear!. At least some more book made it into the film as Gandalf introduces the dwarfs in pairs, till like the last 4 come running out. With Thorin once again taking up the rear for ~~dramatic~~ tedious effect. Which leads into the TE where Beorn says "your the one they call Oakenshield"how does everyone seem to know about his shield? plus a nice scene with Gandalf talking to Beorn about Dol Guldur and the "tombs in the High Fells" which adds abit for that story arc Wasn't there a subplot about Beorn being tortured by Bolg? I take it there is no explanation about the Eagles?.

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:12 pm

I take it there is no explanation about the Eagles?

Nope none at all Shrugging

by Mrs Figg Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:25 pm

I am predisposed to dislike BO5A, but I would like to go into it with an open mind as I did with AUJ. It will probably be the best of the bunch, being a couple of epic battles strung together, so maybe I can just take it as Clash of the Titans set in ME and enjoy it for the spectacle. Shrugging

theres obviously no chance of Bilbo getting more than a few seconds of nose twitching in the film, so bring on the Pigs of War.

by Bluebottle Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:34 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:I am predisposed to dislike BO5A, but I would like to go into it with an open mind as I did with AUJ.

Didn't you walk out of AUJ or something? scratch

(You're a bit my hero for doing that. Nod

)

by Ringdrotten Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:58 pm

Sinister71 wrote:The Thrain parts are laughable to be honest, not very good and just feel too drawn out. The new stuff with Beorn is pretty good. At least some more book made it into the film as Gandalf introduces the dwarfs in pairs, till like the last 4 come running out. With Thorin once again taking up the rear for dramatic effect. Which leads into the TE where Beorn says "your the one they call Oakenshield" plus a nice scene with Gandalf talking to Beorn about DolGuldur and the "tombs in the High Fells" which adds abit for that story arc.

I had no idea about this scene until now (I haven't watched any EE material except this one now and an AUJ EE scene on youtube) - just watched it, and it's probably the best DOS scene I've seen! I could argue about a Beorn I don't like or Gandalf not telling the story as he should, but I realise that would've taken up a lot of time, so I'll keep my mouth shut for once. You got this in your edit, petty?

Here it is in case I'm not the only one who's missed it:

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:14 pm

You got this in your edit, petty?- Ringdrotten

Yeah its in there. But I changed the running order of the scenes quite a bit.
In PJ's they get chased by Beorn to the door, same as in TE, then Gandalf tells them to get some sleep, even though it cant be more than mid-morning if that, then you get the night stuff, then in the morning Gandalf makes the intros, then the conversation round the table, then they leave.

In my edit you dont see Beorn before they get to his house, you just hear him. Then after they get to Beorns comes the intro scene from the EE, then the conversation at the table, then the night scenes where you see Beorn patrolling in bear form for the first time, intercut with Bilbo waking up and hearing him (taken from the scene where he wakes up and has Ring moment in the TE), then they leave next morning.

by Ringdrotten Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm

Cool, now I actually look forward to watching the edit (not that I thought your edit would be crap, I just wasn't all that excited about re-watching DOS) Smile

by Mrs Figg Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:27 pm

Bluebottle wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote:I am predisposed to dislike BO5A, but I would like to go into it with an open mind as I did with AUJ.

Didn't you walk out of AUJ or something?

(You're a bit my hero for doing that. )

it was DOS I walked out just before the Golden shower scene.