Doctor Who [5]
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Mrs Figg
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Eldorion Tue May 21, 2013 3:56 am
That was trippy as balls but overall really fun. 
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Norc Tue May 21, 2013 7:12 pm
i have a question regarding river.
- Spoiler:
- if river and the doctor meet at the opposite ends of their timeline, the whole first/last thing. the first time he met her was her last time... so, the last time he met her, must've been the first time she met him, if you follow, and that was when she was a baby? was it not? or the hitler ep... but! she is in angels take manhattan, which is afterwards (where the fuck is that in the timeline) and shouldn't ...my head started spinning, my point is, why say goodbye in this ep, i know she's dead but... she dies... he already has died, they meat... they cross-meet sort of...what i am trying to say is that River's apperance in this episode doesn't make sense and is she never coming back? and is she out for good.. or??? whaaat?!
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Mrs Figg Tue May 21, 2013 10:40 pm
Norc they make it up as they go along, and if anything has come to a logical dead end Moffat just opens up a wormhole timey wimey and gets out of it that way. if you try to make sense of it you are lost in Dantesque rings of weirdness. theres more plot wormholes than a Swiss cheese.
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Norc Tue May 21, 2013 10:42 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:Norc they make it up as they go along, and if anything has come to a logical dead end Moffat just opens up a wormhole timey wimey and gets out of it that way. if you try to make sense of it you are lost in Dantesque rings of weirdness. theres more plot wormholes than a Swiss cheese.
what NO! i will make sense of it, I WILL!
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Amarië Wed May 22, 2013 7:16 am
- Spoiler:
- River is a copy of the River who died and got sent to the computer world in the Library. Her first meeting with him would be the Hitler thing, since Amy's baby was also a copy.
...I just thought of something... The flesh is connected to the original, right? Doesn't that mean that baby River did feel her mother's love, even if she was just a copy?
Clara pulled a Rose. Copycat. Are we really enough emotionality involved with Clara yet? I found myself not caring.
11 saying goodbye to River was wonderful, though I guess that means she won't be coming back anymore...
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Norc Wed May 22, 2013 8:21 am
Amarië wrote:
- Spoiler:
...I just thought of something... The flesh is connected to the original, right? Doesn't that mean that baby River did feel her mother's love, even if she was just a copy?
Clara pulled a Rose. Copycat. Are we really enough emotionality involved with Clara yet? I found myself not caring.
11 saying goodbye to River was wonderful, though I guess that means she won't be coming back anymore...
- Spoiler:
- aaah... makes more sense... it was the whole baby-river issue i didn't quite get, but hitler-ep being last/first ep makes sense.
i cross my fingers river will be back for the 50th:)
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 23, 2013 8:01 pm
This is how I see Rivers life- based solely on information given within episodes *you might want to get yourself a comfy seat and a barrel of buckie for this)
River Song Time-line.
River Song Time-line.
- Spoiler:
- Conceived on the wedding night of Amy and Rory Williams on-board the TARDIS whilst theTARDIS was in flight through the Time Vortex.
Her mother, Amy Pond, was kidnapped early on in the pregnancy by Madame Kovarian and taken to a secret base, Demon's Run.
The base belonged to the Zealot Order of the Headless Monks, acting on behalf of a shadowy religous movement called the Silence and in alliance with the Church Military.
Their joint aim was to prevent the Doctor ever reaching the Fields of Trenzelore.
Melody was experimented on whilst still in the womb throughout her mothers pregnancy and after her birth, to bring out and accelerate the Time-Lord traits in her DNA acquired during her conception in the Vortex.(A Good Man Goes to War)
When the Doctor rescued her mother, Melody was smuggled away in a Silence Time Machine to Earth in the late 1950's and raised in an Orphanage in America run by Madame Kovaria and the Silence in preparation to fulfilling a fixed point in time in 1969.
She was manipulated, brain washed and trained to assassinate the Doctor. (Day of the Moon)
She was taken from the Orphanage in 1969 to Florida to be symbiotically linked into a stolen and augmented NASA space suit, built to kill the Doctor at the created fix point in time at Lake Silencio.
Melody broke out of the suit and escaped after her mother damaged it in protection of the Doctor by trying to shoot her.
Melody then fled, finding her way eventually to New York.
Dying of cold and hunger on the streets she regenerated. (Day of the Moon)
She next turned up in the early years of her parents life, becoming a close friend of them both throughout their school and teenage years and into their early twenties.
She called herself Mels during this period.
It is unknown if she lived through the years from late 1960's New York until Amy's time.
Or if she regenerated again in that time.
It is possible she placed herself with Amy and Rory without Silence interference, just to be near her parents and because of her brainwashing to seek out and kill the Doctor, who would appear at some point in Amy's time line.
Alternatively she may have been recaptured and placed there deliberately by the Silence to await the Doctor. They could have transported her using their Time Machine, which may be the same machine, seen burnt out, in the Lodger episode set in the present day.(Let's Kill Hitler/The Lodger/Day of the Moon)
My preferred theory, which is conjecture based on dates,locations and characters prior knowledge of events is-
Melody was found and initially raised by post Angels in Manhattan Amy and Rory in New York, who would have been in their fifties at the time of Rivers first regeneration in New York aged about ten (according to their grave stone they both lived into their 80's and would have died when their young selves were about 10).
Before they died they arranged for Melody to travel and stay in England as Mels, and to grow up with their younger selves, knowing this is what had already happened in their past.
This also explains why River is so certain in the graveyard when she tells her mother that letting the Angel take her is the only way for her to be with Rory when the Doctor genuinely does not seem to know- "Yes! Yes, it is!" she insists with certainty.
It may also add extra meaning to Mels words to her parents just before she regenerates that, "you got to raise me after all."
Mels meets the Doctor for the first time since she saw him as a child in Florida.
Together with her parents and the Doctor she travels to Berlin in the 1940's.
Mels is shot and regenerates into the later River in appearance.
Mels hears the word 'spoilers' and the name 'River Song' for the first time.
Mels programming kicks in and she attempts to assassinate the Doctor and succeeds in fatally poisoning him.
The TARDIS teaches her how to fly her.
Her mother shows her who River Song is: herself later in her life.
Her brainwashing is broken and she chooses to give up her regenerations to save the Doctor's life and to find out why the Doctor cares so much for her. (Let's Kill Hitler)
She is left to recover in a hospital in the 52nd century by the Doctor, he also leaves her their diary. (Let's Kill Hitler)
She begins using the name River Song.
Starts her studies to become an archaeologists. (Day of the Moon)
Achieves Doctorate in Archaeology.
Recaptured by Silence and Madame Kovarian.
Taken back to 1969 and forced into the spacesuit to fulfil her date as the main participant in the shooting of the Doctor at Lake Silencio's fixed point in time, witnessed by the older version of herself, her parents, Calton and the Silence.
She is tried by the Church on Silence testimony for the Doctor's murder and sentenced to a Stormcage Facility. (Closing Time/The Impossible Astronaut)
She is visited at night throughout her time in prison by the older post Wedding of River Song Doctor.
Between this time and Rory asking for her assistance at Demons Run she, among other adventures, meets Jimmy the Fish, goes to Easter Island and the Doctor gets Stevie Wonder to sing for them beneath London Bridge at the last ever Winter Fair on a frozen Thames in the 1880's for her birthday present.
This is the Doctor of whom River will later tell her father that 'he knew everything about me.' (The Wedding of River Song/A Good Man Goes to War/Day of the Moon/Good night/Bad night)
River receives a phone call whilst in prison, redirected by the TARDIS, with a warning for the Doctor.
Escapes Stormcage Facility.
She meets the merchant Dorian and acquires from him a Vortex manipulator stolen from a murdered Time Agent.
She steals a Van Gogh painting relating to the Doctor from the Royal Gallery and travels to 2nd century AD Britain to await the Doctor.
Takes part in the events of the Pandorica Opens.
Returns to Stormcage. (Pandorica Opens/Big Bang)
She gains her Professorship in Archaeology. (Time of Angels)
Visited in Stormcage on her birthday by Rory who asks for her help at Demons Run and tells her Amy has been kidnapped.
River refuses to go as she is already there as a baby and cannot interfere in her own past time line.
After her younger self has been taken by Madame Kovarian however she goes to Demons Run and reveals to the Doctor and then Amy and Rory who she really is, their daughter. (A Good Man Goes to War)
She returns to the Stormcage.
River receives an invitation to the Doctors funeral and to be a witness at the fixed point of her younger self shooting the Doctor at Lake Silencio.
She kisses the Doctor for the last time but it is a younger version by over 200 years than the version she has been with and it is his first kiss. (The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon)
In a temporary universe, created by River breaking the fixed point in time, she and the Doctor get married in the presence of her parents.
Although the participants recall events after normal reality is re-established they are returned to their proper places in time.
Doctors Funeral at Lake Silencio.
Amy and Rory return home to England.
River returns to the Stormcage.
The Doctor begins to visit her in the Stormcage from when she was sent there.
River is asked by the Church military to track down a Weeping Angel in return for consideration for parole.
She takes part in the events of the Time of Angels. (Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone/Good Night Bad Night/A Good Man Goes to War)
River visits her parents who are grieving, having just witnessed the Doctors death, River tells them of the Doctors survival.
River pays an unknown amount of visits to see her parents after they get their house in The God Complex, up until Angels Take Manhattan. (The Wedding of River Song)
She is released from the Stormcage Facility at some point before Angels Take Manhattan when all records of the Doctor disappear from the Universe. (The Angels Take Manhattan)
River acting as a Private Investigator is again on the trail of Weeping Angels, this time in New York in 1938.
She uses the name Melody Malone.
She takes part in the events of Angels Take Manhattan.
In present day New York she witness’s her parents being sent back to 1940's New York by a Weeping Angel and trapped there by the surrounding time paradoxes, of which they are the epicentre, to live out the remainder of their lives.
River travels with the Doctor for an unknown period of time. (The Angels Take Manhattan)
Conjecture- River writes and publishes the Melody Malone book, and includes an afterword written by Amy and delivered to Rory's father by their grandson along with Rory's letter.
River gets the TARDIS (or uses the vortex manipulator) to put the book into the Doctors jacket pocket prior to the events of Angels in Manhattan. (The AngelsTake Manhattan/P.S.)
The Doctor takes River to the Singing Towers and gives her his sonic screwdriver and tells her his name. (Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead/ Bad Night)
The Doctor, shattered by the loss of Amy and Rory and knowing that River too is about to go to her death, withdraws to Victorian London and retires. He has now lost all the members of his 'family'.
River is hired to investigate what happened to the universes largest library.
River sends a message to the Doctor and meets him at the library, but he is still in his 10th incarnation. He hasn't met her yet and does not know who she is.
Events of Silence in the Library.
River sacrifices her life to save the 10th Doctor and preserve her own future time line with the 11th.
A data copy of her is uploaded to the library by the 10th Doctor. (Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead)
An unknown amount of time later the data copy of River is accessed by Madame Vastra to help the 11th Doctor on Trenzalore. (The Name of the Doctor)
additional note- post
library River seemed to know what Trenzelore is and why the Doctor cannot go there right from the start, indicating she has had some knowledge of the events there before she died that have not yet been seen.
Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Fri May 24, 2013 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 23, 2013 9:09 pm
Lindallee's review of The Name of the Doctor- will all those classic Doctors and timey-whimeyness confuse the kids?
And the BBC have decided to put up the end of Name of the Doctor, presumably so everyone is up to speed on the big event for the 50th. Obviously, as its the entiore last few minute sof the episode its a huge spoiler.
And the BBC have decided to put up the end of Name of the Doctor, presumably so everyone is up to speed on the big event for the 50th. Obviously, as its the entiore last few minute sof the episode its a huge spoiler.
- Spoiler:
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by David H Thu May 23, 2013 9:39 pm
I'm trying to be good and not open spoilers.....at least for a bit.
I messed up the postage when I mailed the flashdrive to you before I left, so it was waiting for me when I got back home. I'll be mailing it again soon, this time putting it directly into the hands of the postmaster.
I messed up the postage when I mailed the flashdrive to you before I left, so it was waiting for me when I got back home. I'll be mailing it again soon, this time putting it directly into the hands of the postmaster.
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by azriel Thu May 23, 2013 10:32 pm
That kid was so on the ball ! I thought she was cute & so bright! I loved the way she said "Holy cow!", No one could say it as she did !
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 23, 2013 11:21 pm
I wondered David if you had forgot, or just not had time before leaving, I hadn't honestly considered good old fashioned incompetence!
And yes definetly avoid spoilers- you will be thankful when you eventually get up to date.
And when you get a moment, could you pm me a list of the Who episodes I already gave you, so I dont resend any of the same ones.
"That kid was so on the ball ! "- Azriel
I always enjoy watching her review epiosdes, she is living proof of Moffats reply to complaints of overcomplicated plots, 'if you dont understand an episode, find a kid and ask them to explain it to you.'
And yes definetly avoid spoilers- you will be thankful when you eventually get up to date.
And when you get a moment, could you pm me a list of the Who episodes I already gave you, so I dont resend any of the same ones.
"That kid was so on the ball ! "- Azriel
I always enjoy watching her review epiosdes, she is living proof of Moffats reply to complaints of overcomplicated plots, 'if you dont understand an episode, find a kid and ask them to explain it to you.'
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Mrs Figg Thu May 23, 2013 11:45 pm
- Spoiler:
- River's life, Holy Cow thats given me a headache its so complicated
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Thu May 23, 2013 11:49 pm
What? Its perfectly straighfoward Mrs Figg, working it out backwards from watching the episodes- now that was a bitch!
- Spoiler:
(Hats off to the Moff though- it not only fits together it adds to some stuff I hadn't twigged before- like his retirment wasnt just about the time of Amy and Rory leavng, but he had seen River for the last time at the Singing Towers to and left her, knowing she was going to her death. Or young Mels regenerating in New York at the same time as her parents are there from being zapped by the Angels )
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 24, 2013 12:04 am
Not my fault he's a genius Mrs Figg. 
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 24, 2013 3:27 pm
Amy and Rory discuss what marriage means to them- on a rooftop in New York- huge spoilers for Angels Take Manhatten-
- Spoiler:
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 24, 2013 5:41 pm
Strax's Field Report about the Doctors secret (spolilers for The Name of the Doctor)
- Spoiler:
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 24, 2013 6:24 pm
The Name of the Doctor, set to the soundtrack of the Star Trek Into Darkness trailer (spoilers)
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Location : Perth, Australia
Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 25, 2013 9:54 am
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
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Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
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Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 25, 2013 11:48 am
November 23rd Mrs Figg- the Anniversary special.
Then 25th December for the xmas day ep.
And then series 8 starts in 2014 (but possibly not till Autumn).
There are also other anniversary programs- but Moffat and the BBC have been tightlipped so far about exactly what they are.
We do know there will be the Gattiss docudrama abut the shows origins though.
Then 25th December for the xmas day ep.
And then series 8 starts in 2014 (but possibly not till Autumn).
There are also other anniversary programs- but Moffat and the BBC have been tightlipped so far about exactly what they are.
We do know there will be the Gattiss docudrama abut the shows origins though.
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46615
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 52
Location : Scotshobbitland
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25841
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Norc Sat May 25, 2013 12:25 pm
i think the docudrama is just a cover-up for putting spoilery stuff in the anniversary special
Norc- Khaleesi
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Re: Doctor Who [5]
by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 25, 2013 1:14 pm
I think the double for the 1st Doctor and Susan in Name of the Doctor might have been from the Gattiss programme.
Deleted scene from Name of the Doctor-from the series blueray set- sadly only poor quality recorded off tv.
Deleted scene from Name of the Doctor-from the series blueray set- sadly only poor quality recorded off tv.
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46615
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 52
Location : Scotshobbitland
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