Movie and movie character is truest to their book counterpart

Lorient Avandi wrote:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Yes, if memory serves Theoden goes from "Why should we ride to the aid of those who did not come to our aid?" to; Aragorn- "Gondor calls for aid!" Theoden- "And Rohan will answer" without anything inbetween.

Its a little more dramatic than that
Early movie scene
Gandalf- if the beacons are lit, Rohan must be ready for war
Theoden- Tell me-why should we ride to the aid of those who did not come to ours?......... Or do we owe Gondor?

Later, after Aragorn rushes to the Hall after seeing the beacon
Aragorn- the beacons of Minas Tirith are lit! Gondor calls for aid!
Theoden- *hesitates*.....And rohan will answer!

Hey Lorient! I love your avatar btw! Everyone knows that the most attractive men come from Gondor!

Ally wrote:Having recently watched the films again while going on a few extremely long journeys (driving to Poland from Wales? Why? Then Poland to America? Stupid!!)

Great car, though!

"I also had a few thoughts on the whole Helm's Deep thing while watching. In the books they have to go the deep to avoid a humongous army of orcs and
dunelendings which were charging across Rohan, a force so huge that Theoden could not help to defeat them in a pitched battle. But then in the movie Gandalf was like "Hey Theoden! Don't be such a coward!" And I was like, "being a coward by not meeting them to all get killed?!"- Ally

Go PJ! Yeah this is another one of those 'this makes no sense at all ideas' he throws in there. In his version of events Gandalf thinks the small amount of people in Edoras would be better not gathering forces and riding to a stronghold but that they should ride out and meet Sarumans enormous army out in the field- where the Rphirrim would be slaughtered within about 10 minutes- why he thinks this, why PJ decided to make Helms Deep 'a trap' is yet another pathetic example of where he was unable (or unwilling) to get suitable drama from the source and felt he had to 'add' some in.

Another flaw with the helms deep bit is that in the book, there are a few thousand rohirrim there, but in the movie there are only 300+200 elves.this doesn't make sense considering they have 6000 in ROTK and they were still expecting more. It would have been better to at least have 2000-3000.

Ally wrote:


Hey Lorient! I love your avatar btw! Everyone knows that the most attractive men come from Gondor!

Thanks!

Ally wrote:Reading the book I found Theoden to be noble yet kind (the opposite to Denethor really) but when I watched the movies again, having read the books, I found him too young. Maybe the character wasn't developed enough.

I agree on this; both Theoden and Theodred appeared to have been de-aged by about 20 years for the films. In the books, Theoden was in his 70s and still and old man even without Wormtongue around, and Theodred was already in his 40s. In the films, Theoden appeared to be in his early 50s at most (post-exorcism), and Theodred in his mid-late 20s. I've no idea why PJ thought he should to change that.

I also had a few thoughts on the whole Helm's Deep thing while watching. In the books they have to go the deep to avoid a humongous army of orcs and dunelendings which were charging across Rohan, a force so huge that Theoden could not help to defeat them in a pitched battle. But then in the movie Gandalf was like "Hey Theoden! Don't be such a coward!" And I was like, "being a coward by not meeting them to all get killed?!"

I agree, and I also think it's also worth noting that in the books Theoden did want to fight Saruman's army head-on, but decided to face them from the protection of the Hornburg because he realized, as you say, that he couldn't hope to defeat them in the open field. He did not take the entire population of Edoras with him; they were (IIRC) evacuated to Dunharrow, which was much closer to Edoras and more importantly did not require marching the mass of helpless civilians towards armies of marauding orcs and wargs. Apparently tactical stupidity is also dramatic now.

For all my complaining though, I do still enjoy TTT, and I think that Helm's Deep is a fantastic cinematic battle sequence, even if I roll my eyes at some of the contrived drama and tension.

Lorient Avandi wrote:Another flaw with the helms deep bit is that in the book, there are a few thousand rohirrim there, but in the movie there are only 300+200 elves.this doesn't make sense considering they have 6000 in ROTK and they were still expecting more. It would have been better to at least have 2000-3000.

Yeah, I never really got that either (except as more "drama"). Maybe PJ had been reading 300 before shooting Helm's Deep?

I think PJ said Helms deep reminded him of Zulu



What a brilliant movie, gave me goosebumps just watching this clip.
Would have to put this in my top 5 movies.

Eldorion wrote:

Lorient Avandi wrote:Another flaw with the helms deep bit is that in the book, there are a few thousand rohirrim there, but in the movie there are only 300+200 elves.this doesn't make sense considering they have 6000 in ROTK and they were still expecting more. It would have been better to at least have 2000-3000.

Yeah, I never really got that either (except as more "drama"). Maybe PJ had been reading 300 before shooting Helm's Deep?

I admit to feeling a bit of a buzz when the elves turned up (don't tell Petty I said it!) though it was wrong, ever so wrong. I now watch it and cringe.

Shame he didn't watch Zulu closer the difference between it and Helms Deep is it was good.

I liked Helms Deep, except that there were no elves left at the end but I never even noticed until I was older... hmmm... silly PJ, underestimating his audience AGAIN.