Re: Stuff from the book that should have been in the film, but mysterously wasn't (or the what the **** you playing at PJ thread)

[Mrs Figg]

well I got all that from Ians performance and more, so we will have to agree to disagree *again*

[Pettytyrant101]

well I got all that from Ians performance- Mrs Figg

No we get precisley half of it- we dont get the physical performance of Gandalf the Grey as described by Tolkien.
And I miss that aspect to Gandalf because I always pictured him when reading as described.

[Mrs Figg]

No. we get precisely all of it.

[halfwise]

I can see that sir Ian could have played up the physical age a bit more, but I thought his voice and mannerisms did an excellent job of portraying great age. His White was very definitely different from his Grey.

[Pettytyrant101]

Yes, he did a good job with the voice and the face, but he didnt make his body old. He moves to easily and nimbly, he hardly ever really uses his staff properly as a walking aid.
And whilst his White is different to his Grey it is more in costume and the delivery of the lines than in any significant physical change to his body, which afterall has supposed to have been reborn in a literal sense, back to like when he first arrived in a flesh body, before he was bent by the load of carrying out his task.

[CC12 35]

and who cares about Tolkien anyways


Ian /heart

[Pettytyrant101]

As always CC there I think you have hit upon the truth and very heart of the problem in this debate.

[Mrs Figg]

I can see that sir Ian could have played up the physical age a bit more, but I thought his voice and mannerisms did an excellent job of portraying great age. His White was very definitely different from his Grey.

[Mrs Figg]

Yes, he did a good job with the voice and the face, but he didnt make his body old. He moves to easily and nimbly, he hardly ever really uses his staff properly as a walking aid.
And whilst his White is different to his Grey it is more in costume and the delivery of the lines than in any significant physical change to his body, which afterall has supposed to have been reborn in a literal sense, back to like when he first arrived in a flesh body, before he was bent by the load of carrying out his task.

actually Gandalf the White carried himself very differently. Its subtle but its there, well I find it obvious anyway. Gandalf the White is more lordly and upright. You see it most in two places, firstly when he reveals himself to Aragorn and co, and in Rohan in front of Theoden when he casts off his cloak. It is a change, do you seriously think an actor of Ians calibre doesnt understand physical acting? Because he does, he has been doing it for 40 years or so. His acting is subtle not a comedy hunchback.

[halfwise]

Yeah, I think hunchback would have been too much.

[Pettytyrant101]

I dont remember asking for a comedy hunchback routine- I prefer having my own words in my mouth Mrs Figg!
I dont think he has to be doubled over, but I would prefer a Gandalf whose physical appearence is as described in the text- I dont see whats so hard to accept about that. Its how Gandalf is in the book- and it lends to good moments- like when he is refused entry at Edoras for refusing to give up his staff "I am old. If i cannot lean on my stick as I go then I will sit here until it pleases Theoden to hobble out himself and see me"- lines like that only really work if he, as the grey, had a reputation and was known as an old man who leant on a stick.
Much as Sir Ian put in a good performance I never got the impression from his Gandalf of that sort of old man.
On that I think Bakshi's Gandalf is closer to the book.

[Mrs Figg]

call me old fashioned but this looks like an old man to me.




and this does not

[Pettytyrant101]

Well in the first he is sitting on a rock in a dark cave and second on horse back. He'd be in trouble if he sat on a horse like that!

[Mrs Figg]

[RA]

Can we all agree that the Voice of Saruman scene in the EE was bad though?
Or am I alone there?

[Mrs Figg]

I liked it

[Norc]

me too

[CC12 35]

yh the other gandalf getting impaled on that wheel is like highlight of film

[halfwise]

Can we all agree that the Voice of Saruman scene in the EE was bad though?
Or am I alone there?

Agreed. Can't put my finger on why exactly it didn't work, but I think the talking from the top of the tower clear to the bottom made it feel off. In the book he was speaking from a balcony, a bit more intimate. The movie scene came across as unnatural and a bit forced. And we didn't see Saruman return when called....that was important to show Gandalf's stature had become more than just some magic.

[Pettytyrant101]

Yeah the roof thing is annoying- especially as, think its Bernard Hill, said when they shot it they were under the impression Saruman was on the balcony not the roof- so no one is looking up enough to even see Saruman on the roof.

Also the whole nonsensne abut Gandalf needing Saruman alive so he can find out where Sauron willl strike- when everyone kows he has to strike Gondor first as its right there in the way. Makes Gandalf look like an idiot.

[Mrs Figg]

[halfwise]

Also the whole nonsensne abut Gandalf needing Saruman alive so he can find out where Sauron willl strike- when everyone kows he has to strike Gondor first as its right there in the way. Makes Gandalf look like an idiot.

Huh? I don't remember that part. but it wasn't exactly a memorable scene.

[Pettytyrant101]

Just before Legolas murders him and Wormtongue for no readily apparent reason Halfy- Gandalf is giong on about needing to know.

Why does he shoot them both dead? Anyone?

My own theory is PJ just wanted them out the script and even for him it would be too grass to have Gandalf do it.

[Pettytyrant101]

GANDALF: Saruman! You were deep in the enemy’s counsel. Tell us what you know!

Saruman turns around to face Gandalf.
Grima pulls a knife out behind Saruman.

SARUMAN: You withdraw your guard and I will tell you where your doom will be decided. I will not be held prisoner here!

Grima rises up behind Saruman and attacks him with the knife, stabbing him twice in the back. Legolas aims an arrow at Grima who falls shot in the heart. Saruman falls from the tower and is impaled on a great wheel below.

GANDALF: Send word to all our allies and to every corner of Middle Earth that still stands free. The enemy moves against us. We need to know where he will strike.



GONDOR YOU F***ING IDIOT!

[Mrs Figg]

there he goes again moan moan moan.