Re: Unreleased deleted scenes from the trilogy etc

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:13 pm

halfwise wrote:
Mrs Figg wrote:I have seen some interviews with Viggo about LOTR, I am sure I havent imagined them. he talks about the last day of filming and stuff. Some Actors just dont do interviews about their craft, its not their style and I think viggo is one of them.
I would be interested in anything new as regards LOTR, i love hunting for those B roll thingies, they always have some fascinating little jem i havent watched before. I wish they do use the raw footage they must have stashed somewhere.

Yeah, he talks about his bus, and he has some earlier comments about Tolkien's relation to Nordic myth, I think. I thought part of the reason he wasn't in the EE appendices so much is he was already involved in filming in Arabia. But may be he just wanted to keep his trap shut as well.

well you know what they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" :hug:

by malickfan Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:13 pm

Sinister71 wrote:

well you know what they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

That would be a great signature for you Sin Wink

by malickfan Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:20 pm

One of the things that has surprised me (well, not entirely) that even with the 3 film split on The Hobbit there seems to be a sizeable amount of deleted/expanded/reworked scenes for them as well (The Original Thrain flashback, expanded Battle of Azanulbizar, more Thrandypants in DOS, the Dwarves exploring the ruins of Dale, expanded Tauriel healing scene, numerous reaction shots in the Unexpected Party, expanded conversation between Thorin and Bilbo inn Rivendell etc), evidently PJ seems to prefer to work on the hoof (I guess the four months prep time vs 2+ years on LOTR made a difference as well), from what I can tell alot of the deleted footage for The Hobbit is simply extended material rather than junked subplots or alternate scenes, I don't think this would be as interesting to watch.

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:15 pm

malickfan wrote:
Sinister71 wrote:

well you know what they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

That would be a great signature for you Sin

I'm ALWAYS nice... Suspect

no wait

I'm always an a**hole, or is it nice. I get so confused

sometimes

by Sinister71 Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:28 pm

malickfan wrote:
Sinister71 wrote:

well you know what they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

That would be a great signature for you Sin

there....signature changed

by malickfan Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:15 pm

Sinister71 wrote:
malickfan wrote:
Sinister71 wrote:

well you know what they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

That would be a great signature for you Sin
there....signature changed

Well, I was joking! But Thumbs Up

anwway! Short and sweet I suppose, better than my rambling signature...

by davidjoneshoward Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:05 am

malickfan wrote:One of the things that has surprised me (well, not entirely) that even with the 3 film split on The Hobbit there seems to be a sizeable amount of deleted/expanded/reworked scenes for them as well (The Original Thrain flashback, expanded Battle of Azanulbizar, more Thrandypants in DOS, the Dwarves exploring the ruins of Dale, expanded Tauriel healing scene, numerous reaction shots in the Unexpected Party, expanded conversation between Thorin and Bilbo inn Rivendell etc), evidently PJ seems to prefer to work on the hoof (I guess the four months prep time vs 2+ years on LOTR made a difference as well), from what I can tell alot of the deleted footage for The Hobbit is simply extended material rather than junked subplots or alternate scenes, I don't think this would be as interesting to watch.

Hey at least some of the unused extended material in the Hobbit isn't redundant and ultimately unnecessary to the movie, in fact some of the unused footage in the Hobbit would probably make it even better (I'm of course referring to the Dwarves exploring the ruins of Dale, and Thorin and Bilbo is Rivendell) Anyways, where did you get your sources for these unused scenes anyways?

Also, there is a lot of alternate footage, there has to be. Remember back when it would have been only two films and there was no love triangle? Well then how would the filmmakers justify three of the dwarves staying behind from when they leave for Erebor? They probably originally never had them get separated in the first place. Also, I once heard somewhere that the dragon fight at the end of DOS was originally not in it but only when it was stretched into 3 movies (because the 2nd one wuldn't have had any climax)

Another question: in this link you gave us (http://www.fempiror.com/otherscripts/LordoftheRings1-FOTR.pdf) specifically on page 97, 107, there are some lines of dialogue that didn't make it to the final cut; how then did you find this?

Final question: what is your opinion of the hobbit movies, and what do you think will be on the extended edition?

Thank you for all your hard work and effort into making this awesome thread

by Music of the Ainur Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:23 am

Thanks malickfan, I watched these links, couldn't see the first one it is blocked for copyright reasons in the US. It is cool to get new visuals, I don't know that I would like them if I heard the dialog, but to be able to see some new things was cool.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:53 am

Another new member to Forumshire cheers

- welcome davidjoneshoward pub

by azriel Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:15 pm

Talk about being late coming to the party Laughing

I watched those links also Malick, Wonder what else was scraped ? Change of mind is a queer thing, IF these were used instead, how would I feel about LOTRs now ? what feeling of film would it have been ? better, or, worse ? Shrugging

I do like the bloopers tho Very Happy

I like the one of Sam trying to get a close up and Gandy not letting him have it Laughing

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:21 pm

Better late than never! Or is that better drunk than not? drunken

by azriel Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:26 pm

Im on a chocolate 'high' Laughing

the family has dished out the Easter eggs & i aint stopping ! Very Happy

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:28 pm

by malickfan Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:21 pm

davidjoneshoward wrote:

Welcome to Forumshire David

Hey at least some of the unused extended material in the Hobbit isn't redundant and ultimately unnecessary to the movie, in fact some of the unused footage in the Hobbit would probably make it even better (I'm of course referring to the Dwarves exploring the ruins of Dale, and Thorin and Bilbo is RivendellI thought it was a little odd they extended the Thorin/Bilbo conversation in the EE by only a minute or two-they talk on the commentary about there being even more to the scene, it could be a pivotal point in Thorin/Bilbo's arc in the film, but instead we are left with the stupid hug at the end...) Anyways, where did you get your sources for these unused scenes anyways?I'm a member of TORn, though I very rarely post there anymore (nothing against the site, I just find this forum more intimate and fun...I'm not a massive fan of the films either so I don't feel entirely at home there ), most of my information was taken from interviews or behind the scenes photographs posted on the Forum during production of TH trilogy(when I was a semi-regular poster...and actually had enthusiasm for the trilogy...) an international fanbase and the websites ties to the filmcrew and thw wider Tolkien community provided a goldmine of interesting info

Also, there is a lot of alternate footage, there has to beIndeed, it is my understanding (based on the EE special features) that some scenes were only loosely scripted-the Dwarves in Bag End was largely improvised I think. Remember back when it would have been only two films and there was no love triangle? Well then how would the filmmakers justify three of the dwarves staying behind from when they leave for Erebor? They probably originally never had them get separated in the first placeFrom memory that is the case. Also, I once heard somewhere that the dragon fight at the end of DOS was originally not in it but only when it was stretched into 3 movies (because the 2nd one wuldn't have had any climaxI've heard this as well, it's quite a long scene (in the 2 film split AUJ was going to end with the shot of Bard discovering the Barrels (specially the close up of him pointing the bow) so I'm struggling to see how it would fit in (unless the films were 31/2 hours each), I did initially think it would seem anticlimatic for the Dwarves not to face Smaug in the films (given the films rewrote the plot into being a quest to reclaim Erebor rather than a jolly romp for treasure)

Another question: in this link you gave us (http://www.fempiror.com/otherscripts/LordoftheRings1-FOTR.pdf) specifically on page 97, 107, there are some lines of dialogue that didn't make it to the final cut; how then did you find this? again, a old post I came across whilst browsing the TORn forum archives, obviously as I got this information second hand from a busy fan forum it is impossible to completely verify

Final question: what is your opinion of the hobbit moviesMy opinion, much like the films themselves is meandering and confused, put simply there is little I love ( 1) some of the performances-Ken Sott, Lee Pace, Martin Freeman when he wasn't twitching 2)The production design-specifically Erebor and Laketown 3) Smaug was without a doubt the greatest Dragon in cinematic history 4) Some of the cinematography and set pieces were beautifully staged 5) Depending on which way you look at things this may also be the one of the films biggest issues, but I did feel that the cast/crew on the whole seemed to be having fun, the trilogy for better or worse had a distinctive tone and style all of it's own, I was often angry or bored, but never entirely dissapointed, for better or worse I'm glad the films were made in NZ...at the very least there is alot to talk about in these films)
a fair amount I didn't mind, but mostly vast stretches I'm either bored/annoyed by, or simply indifferent to (perhaps the biggest issue for me-after BOTFA ended I didn't feel anything, not even disappointment)the trilogy felt so disjointed (both bloated and rushed somehow) It's hard for me to give a definite answer, and what do you think will be on the extended edition?I've only seen BOFTA once so my memory is hazy but at a guess: More 'Hero Shots' of the individual Dwarves in the BOTFA(Dosen't Dwalin dissapear halfway through Ravenhill?) Extended BOTFA/Dol Guldor battle scenes, Thorin's funeral and Dain's crowning, more Beorn-perhaps a meeting of him and Radagast in Mirkwood prior to the battle, Alfrid's death (I vaguely recall reading on TORn a rumour he would get accidently fired out of an orcish catapault...wouldn't put it past Jackson) Raddy giving Gandalf his staff, more on the morgul blade and Elvish rings (confirmed in the DOS commentary I think), maybe quick bridging sequences into FOTR (Gollum/Frodo cameos, Balin going to Mordor, Tauriel or Legolas leaving for the wilds etc)

Thank you for all your hard work and effort into making this awesome threadThanks!, it wasn't really hard work on my part, just a combination of boredom/too much spare time on my hands at the time, your thanks should probably be reversed for the actual people who went to the trouble of tracking down this information (or possibly making it up)

by davidjoneshoward Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:15 am

Thanks for responding to my post, man Very Happy

BTW:do you remember any details to the unused extended scenes of the hobbit? like what were they doing in dale? did they spend the night there? what were bilbo and thorin talking about in Rivendell? I assume you found these scenes on the production blogs, am I right?

by davidjoneshoward Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:15 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Another new member to Forumshire - welcome davidjoneshoward

hi

by malickfan Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:38 pm

davidjoneshoward wrote:Thanks for responding to my post, man BTW:do you remember any details to the unused extended scenes of the hobbit? like what were they doing in dale? did they spend the night there? what were bilbo and thorin talking about in Rivendell? I assume you found these scenes on the production blogs, am I right?

I got my information from several sources- The production Blogs, the EE commentary of AUJ/DOS, TORn, The Heirs of Durin Blog, LOTR Plaza etc-though again the majoirty of what I found out was down to other people's hard work or their industry contacts. If you are curious about the production of TH films, it may be worth checking out the numerous behind the scenes books: The Visual Companion books by Jude Fisher (each film has a different book), The Official Movie Guides by Brian Sibley (again one for each film, Sibley was also adapted LOTR and Tales From The Perilous Realm for BBC Radio) , the various Hobbit Movie Chronicles books showcasing much of the art and design work done by Weta for the films (there are seven books I think), and 'Smaug: Unleashing The Dragon' by Daniel Falconer, I haven't read any of these books (beyond a few sneaky glimpses in the bookshop-enough to tell me they are very detailed books), but the chronicles books in particular have received very high praise on TORn, and I know they go in much greater detail than the EE special features (some of Del Torro's (terrible imo) designs for Smaug are in one of the Chronicles books, Jackson has mentioned they intend to do a book/documentary about Del Torro's input at some point)

To be totally honest I stopped following film news and rumours after AUJ (although I mostly enjoyed AUJ, it quickly became apparent that tonally and visually TH trilogy wasn't going to be the one I had expected Neutral

I still think two three hour films or an animated miniseries would have been the best way to make The Hobbit, the storyline neither justified nor supported the Jackson's attempts to turn it into an epic i.m.o) so I can't remember alot of the details, it's possible some of the information got confused with rumours in the process.

Anyway, from memory I remember reading the Dale scene was supposed to be similar to what is suggested in the book-The Dwarves and Bilbo walk through the ruins of Dale on their way to Erebor, Balin and Bilbo share a conversation ruminating on Dale's history, and how the greed of men of Smaug led to its downfall, it was cut for pacing reasons, supposedly it was going to have a parallel with a later scene between Balin and Bilbo in Erebor, though I can't remember the details.

Bilbo and Thorin's conversation was supposed to go into greater detail about the halls of Erebor and Thorin's lineage-Peter Jackson talks about it on the EE commentary, I'm not sure why it was cut (beyond pacing reasons) but it sounded a interesting scene, perhaps it was too early in Thorin and Bilbo's character arc for Thorin to spill so much of his inner thoughts?

On a related note this might interest you:

https://sites.google.com/site/grammaboodawg/home

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:36 pm

For all the things I dislike about TorN they do have some excellent resources and if you dont go on the film threads there is good Tolkien and book info there too.

by malickfan Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:41 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:For all the things I dislike about TorN they do have some excellent resources and if you dont go on the film threads there is good Tolkien and book info there too.

Definitely, I've never had any issues on the forum and there are alot of nice (and very knowledgeable people) who post there (including several Tolkien scholars) but personally I find the site a bit too crowded and over-modded, I haven't posted there in a good three or four months.

Enthusiasm isn't a crime, many of the complaints some of us make about elements of the films fanbase could easily be compared to some of the views here

by malickfan Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:09 pm

A few more AUJ deleted scenes I saw listed on TORn:

Bombur is crawling on the table to get a whole meat joint at Bilbo's home, during the party
-Extended Thrain fight scenes at Battle of Moria
-Gloin is examining elvish things by his magnifying lens (In Rivendell I guess, though I do remember vague rumours that a few quick scenes were shot of the company in exile-like the quick shot near the beginning of the film of Thorin working at a forge)
-Bifur is making a toy and doesn't care anything while Bilbo is preparing to leave to Rivendell from the cave (he was holding in the cave just before the floor trap opened, but I don't think you can see it in the frame)
-Goblin town extra fight and escape scenes (Bifur is saved from the below level, some hits from dwarves to goblins who are climbing to them)
-Goblin king sees the map and talking about the quest
-After Gandalf cuts Goblin King's stomach, he says funny quote '' I don't remember eating this'' (Probably alternate scene)
-Bifur is throwing a cone by talking dwarvish (Don't know what this refers to)
-Bifur is making flying moves on the eagles as they are resued (presumably miming the actions of the wings...I never got the sense Bifur is Brain damaged in the films, though it dosen't make alot of tactical sense to take along a handicapped dwarf with a axe sticking out of his head...)
-Bilbo looks from his hobbit hole to Shire last time
-Thorin talks about his childhood with Bilbo in Rivendell
-While singing blunt the knives, not on the table but moving around for Dwalin and Bofur to show their instruments.
-Gandalf cuts the rope of the bridge in Goblin town and goblins fell down.
-Conversation between Thorin & Fili https://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/hbt-031232r.jpg
-Longer Old Took's party

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Well most of that sounds like more crap extended! Mad

We need more character development, more story emphasis, not more bloody stupid OTT fight scenes Evil or Very Mad

by davidjoneshoward Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:15 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I always wondered why Viggo Mortensen took no part in the commentaries - Malick

I always go the impression from him in the few post LotR's interviewed he did on the subject that he wasnt too keen on the treatment or the scripting as the process went on. He is on record as being critical of the loss of focus on the secondary characters and of the ramping up of action over character.
And he strikes me as the sort of man who if they have little good to say would rather say nothing at all.

Well IDK if that's fair to say given that there was lots of character development with Frodo, Sam and Smeagol.

by davidjoneshoward Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:18 am

The question is, should PJ put all the endless hours of unused material in the Ultimate Edition, will it be raw footage with commentary over it (explaining why it didn't make the cut), or edited with music, special effects and everything, so we would see what it would look like if it was in the films?

by Eldorion Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:42 am

That's a good point. Ideally I'd love to see what it would look like finished, but I dunno if WB would feel it's worth the cost. Plus going back and adding to the scenes 10-15 years later is kinda weird. I think I'd prefer that they just realize whatever they have, and if SFX work was done at the time, awesome. But otherwise don't Lucas it now.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:55 am

Well IDK if that's fair to say given that there was lots of character development with Frodo, Sam and Smeagol. - Davidjones

Hello again!

I think he meant the truly secondary characters- Legolas, Gimli, Faramir those sort of characters.

If you take Legolas and Gimli they get no character development at all in RotK and barely any in TT.
For some reason PJ opted to play down the friendship between Gimli and Legolas and play up an invented one between Legolas and Arargorn- so gone is Gimli and Legolas agreeing to travel together when all is over, gone is Legolas hearing the call of the gulls and getting the sea longing to depart ME, gone is them entering Minas Tirith together and discussing the merits and lack of of Men.