Power of the Númenóreans

Lancebloke wrote:Halfwise - you managed to completely turn the tide of the conversation.... and everyone ignored my post.

If there was a proper crying (not the cutting an onion one) or suicide emoticon it would be being used right now.

Now look. You made an eminently reasonable statement that concluded the Numenorean questions with no real controversy, I can assume that part of the conversation is finished, right?

Not unlike Napoleon marching against the British, then he suddenly falls through a hole in the ground. His commanders might stop, look down, shrug their shoulders, and say "Right, ...anybody know of any nice resort towns around here?"

Just read back your post Lance and I think you suffered the problem of being right! you posed a question but also gave the answer. So noone added to it as it seemed to have self resolved itself!
On a related point we had an interesting discussion a while back (the um conclusions of which I can't entirely remember ) on which of the Numereons Kings became the nine Black Riders.
Time to call in the heavy guns on that one- Elthir! Eldo! Who the heck were they again and when did they rule as Kings?

I hope that hole didnt have green wallpaper.

I feel I would be a more rounded person if I knew what that meant Mrs Figgs? Is there a connection between Napolean and green wallpaper what am I missing?

I thought thats how he died, when he was exiled living on the island of St Helena, his bedroom had green wallpaper made with green arsenic pigments that in the damp weather leached into the atmosphere and slowly poisoned him. I think there was a forensic test done on a lock of his hair and it showed abnormal amounts of arsenic, first they thought someone had put it into his food to do him in, but later they found the wallpaper. Maybe its an urban myth, but I thought it was based on fact.

I knew that!! (No really I did, just um lost in the buckie banks of memory somewhere, but now you mention it I wish I had a way to defrag my head so I could find the info better)

meh, you probably need a reboot, I can do that, I got big boots.

Pretty tries that regularly, you know on balance I am not sure it helps.

halfwise wrote:
Now look. You made an eminently reasonable statement that concluded the Numenorean questions with no real controversy, I can assume that part of the conversation is finished, right?

Not unlike Napoleon marching against the British, then he suddenly falls through a hole in the ground. His commanders might stop, look down, shrug their shoulders, and say "Right, ...anybody know of any nice resort towns around here?"

I didn't know if I was talking bollocks or not.... that was my question in the post. Haven't read the UT and all that lot in a long time so could very well have been making it all up!

Dont worry about talking bollocks, its positively encouraged. Its an art form here in forumshire.

When I first joined THM people actually used to talk about Tolkien and stuff. Plus there were fewer posts making everything easier to track when I did occasionally visit and okay I'm fangirlinow

I'm not quite so sure about that... Once this NEW Perfected Forum started up, we've talked as little as reasonably possible about The Hobbit Movie on a Hobbit Movie Forum can be talked about, methinks, thank Eru.

{{Not to self: Ally clearly does not know that the ONCE was a Hobbit Movie Forum, not a Tolkien forum... Things spread from The Hobbit to Tolkien generally and now to just about everything...}}}

Way to knock down my self-esteem about life & stuff Orwell I'm pretty sure I've never humiliated you so harshly before...

I kinda like these depictions of Sauron, puts me in mind of the story of the "Fallen Angel" Satan. If nothing else, he was determined to win, He was conniving,planing ahead for his own benefit & gain, fore sighted in mans weaknesses, patient & powerful, bidding his time,no matter how long it took.He could charm the birds out of the trees & refuse to lie down & die!. Anybody else would have been called an under-dog or even (& this is a stretch of the imagination) a hero ?! Shame he was such a bad guy ! there seems to be parallels with today's dictators. But, unlike the evils of the world today, you could believe that Sauron rests again until the time is right ? Also,like Satan, who was cast into a pit of fire, the Ring was also cast into a cast of fire ? Seems like a similar topic in destroying evil ?

Women and their bad-boy fascination.

It is a recurring theme though that evil things rarely begin that way.
There's always the fall from grace.

the price of olives today

{{And I don't even know why. But there it is, that was my reaction to your post CC!}}

'Aragorns heroism is not a big one on one duel with the big bad guy.'- PJ

Wish he had that thought a bit earlier than the end of the film. Somewhere about the point were Aragorn has a big one on one fight with the big bad at the end of FotR.
Inside of the emotional drama of Aragorn considering everything he as done since leading the Company a failure, and the wider ramifications for how that might colour his own view of his chances of uniting all men under one banner and being their King.

well, we all know Tolkien got it so wrong! If only Peter "isnt he wonderful" Jackson had lived earlier, to help guide & aid Tolkien & show him where he went wrong I dont know, What can you do with these people,who spend all their waking days religiously writting & writting, book after book, years wasted on olympian study, College, University, Professor-ship, Crazy I tell you, just crazy ! You only have to ask a New Zealander & you have your answer !

What really bugs me about that is there is a scene in TT right after Gandalf comes back where he and Aragorn are standing looking east at night and Aragorn looks troubled and Gandalf says to him not to regret his decision to leave Frodo.
When in the films did he regret it? Just then with that one frown? What?

In the book he makes speeches about it! "All I have done this day as gone amiss." "It is I that have failed." "Vain was Gandalf's trust in me."
He takes the death of Boromir onto himself, removes the blame from him and takes it on himself, he led Boromir and the Company to this fate- its noble but misguided, none of it is really his fault at all, so when the time comes for that conversation with Gandalf it means something.

Its pointless in the film from the point of view if anyone who hasnt read the book and can fill in the gaps- and the gaps are the entire rest of what should have happened at Amon Hen and its aftermath regards Aragorns character development.
Its the first time we see him face the consequences of a major set back in their plan to defeat Sauron, and it was on his watch, and we see how he overcomes and choses to go on, that even if he never becomes King he will still do whatever he can do to thwart Sauron, and the thing he chooses to do is save his compions wo were his responsibilty fron torture or defeat. To put ight some part of what he thinks he got wrong. Showing what sort of a man he is.
If he was a purely ambitous man he could have gone straight to Gondor to stake hs claim, or back to Edoras to persuade Theoden to back his claim.

But hey thats not so good as a needleslly violent and prolonged fight scene where Aragorn triumphantly chops off half of somenes arm then their head.

I agree, everything you just said is right. I wonder how someone who is blind or visually impaired would dictate a review ? Going just on words alone ? Blind people do go to the cinema & theatre also. They listen to audio books to. Id like to hear from a visual impaired person what THEY think of the characterisation from Peter "master of all I survey" Jackson against the LOTRs story if they had heard it via an audio book or if some one read them it ? Cause a lot of the characters dont add up to me !

i want to marry Aragorn. Such a brave guy really. Why does he have to be a fictional character (and 87 years old) (and married to Arwin)