The Hobbit and the One Ring

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:14 pm

This is a topic I started on the Hobbit Movie News but thought would be good to discuss here too.
This was the opening statement to spark it.

The Ring in the hands of PJ in LotR's was a partly concious, voiced evil thing- when worn it put its wearer into a crazy swirling world.
In TH its a handy burgulars tool worn for extensive periods of time (compared to Frodo) and the entire conversation with Smaug.
PJ can hardly give us the swirly world of LotR's or the conversation will be as hard to hear as it will be to see.So will PJ have a visual component to putting on the Ring-if not will that not seem odd to people who saw LotR's? In fact is there not an inherent problem in the audience knowing all about the Ring when none of the characters do and the characters remain ingnorant until the very end.

Having made LotR's first how can PJ now present the Ring as effectively harmless (as far as the story of TH is concerned).
He cant have anything obviously amiss about it beyond Bilbo not quite telling the truth about how he got it- and even then PJ has a fine line to tread in Gandalfs suspicions- if PJ overplays that it wil make it seems a bit odd it took Gandy over 60 years to work it out. And if he plays the Ring as is in TH its going to seem a bit odd to audiences who have only ever seen PJ's LotR's.
And obviously there can be no connection between it and the Necromancer- no flashes of big eyeballs etc when Bilbo touches it or puts it on, otherwise Sauron would know the Ring had reappeared 60 years too soon.
So how is PJ going to handle it?

So what do you think? How will PJ do it?

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Post by Amarië Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:07 pm

Well, Bilbo did use it in FOTR without swirly things happening. Perhaps PJ will keep it as subtle as he did there. Well, one can only hope.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:18 pm

That is very true Amarie. But we never saw things from Bilbo's point of view, something which will be much harder when Bilbo is the main character and wears the Ring for long periods of time (weeks in the Elven-Kings dungeons- and the entire conversation with Smaug) hard to imagine them shooting those scenes with no reaction shots from Bilbo or showing him when he speaks. And it would be pretty messy to go from swirly noisy ring world and back to normal for Smaug's bit of dialogue.

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Post by Amarië Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:39 pm

There was no indication of a swirly world for Bilbo in FOTR, I hope PJ at least tones it down a bit if he does go for the "we can see the actor but the others can't" thing. Heh, yeah, we believe that don't we?

PJ could make it work if he wants too, I am sure of it. Camera angles and such alone can show a lot of sneaking around and spying, some decent voice acting here and there too. Problem is that I am sure he goes for spectacular and overly obvious colour filter and effect craziness. Plus, it is only in the book that he keeps the Ring on for so long. No need for PJ to follow that bit, is there? Razz

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:51 pm

Bit dangerous if he takes the Ring off mid conversation with Smaug! And the swirly Ring world would not only induce vomiting I imagine in 3D but its also noisy-not much good for a conversation or to give the viewer the impression Bilbo is being quiet and sneaky.
And if he doesn't have the wirly ring world visuals wont that seem a bit odd to viewers who have only ever seen LotR's where the Ring is presented as a partly self concious evil thing in itself complete with swirly other world when worn?
If he plays down the Rings effect he will narratively have to explian that somehow- if he plays it up it risks upsetting the plotting as well as just being distracting.
The Ring is just a handy tool in TH not yet a thing of potent evil.

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Post by Amarië Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:06 pm

I am curious to how he will solve the problem. We might see Gollum vanish and something from Gollum point-of-view while invisible to prepare us for how "invisible mode" looks like.

They could focus on Smaug reacting to the voice and trying to locate Bilbo while talking. And some bouncy camery thing when Bilbo goes to act burglarish.

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Post by David H Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:07 pm

I'm guessing PJ has been watching every "invisible man" movie and TV series ever made and trying to master the existing conventions. He's never shown any fear of borrowing from others. It wouldn't surprise me to find several "homage" scenes included.

If that's the case there would probably only be very infrequent, short periods from Bilbo's point of view. The rest of the story would be told by various visual tricks -- footprints, bending twigs, rustling curtains, carried objects etc. IMO this seems like it would be exactly PJ's style.

When we do need to see things from Bilbo's POV, I'd be very surprised to see swirls. To me that swirly world was a visual cue that the ringbearer was under attack. I'm sure WETA can come up with a more subtle visual cue that just says, "I'm invisible and my senses are heightened".
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Post by Amarië Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:14 pm

Yeah, what he with the ability to speak coherent said!

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I have to expect the worst so that I can be pleasantly surprised when things actually are similar to the book, instead of being replace by something 'better'. I still can't see the "Sauron sees you/Spirit world" swirls being used though.

I am however dying to see Mikael Persbrandt as Beorn, regardless of what oddities they surely will had added. Go figure! Wink

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:43 pm

I can see PJ using the 'invisible man' stuff David for a lot of it- he did similar when Isildur put the Ring on to jump in the River in the prologue- but can you have an entire conversation with Smaug like that? With no reaction shots of Bilbo? Or seeing Bilbo talk? It would certaintly not be the norm for a film conversation.
And what about the Elven-Kings halls where Bilbo is invisible for long periods of time?

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Post by Ally Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:27 pm

Pah, just one small aspect of LOTR. I wouldn't care a jolt if there were no other effects apart from Biblo turning invisible; like in the book. Just do that. Yeah, I'd have no problem if he actually was invisible for the whole scene either, I mean the fact that the ring makes him invisible has already long been established. Play the of novelty card with Bilbo experimenting with invisibility for the first time, and then just get on with the story. Need not be a big deal, just shoot the scene. Get a few shots from Bilbo's perspective, maybe have a slight change in the light, but hopefully nothing like what we saw in LOTR. Very Happy

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm

Sense from a PJ liberal Ally? You must be ill! Wink
But you are right in my view- leave it as is- no swirly other worldy effects- just not sure after LotR's PJ can get away with doing that- or will want to- the Ring is rather prominant in the trailer at the end as THE RING. Can he really present it as just a handy trinket that makes you invisible (of course he should- but will he?)

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Post by David H Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:47 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote: can you have an entire conversation with Smaug like that? With no reaction shots of Bilbo? Or seeing Bilbo talk? It would certaintly not be the norm for a film conversation.
And what about the Elven-Kings halls where Bilbo is invisible for long periods of time?

To me it seems like the elven halls are perfect for the Invisible Man treatment, with lots of little sight gags as Bilbo avoids detection while stealing food and discovering information. I'm betting PJ will have a lot of fun with this, and I'm hoping that will be enough to keep him from trying to introduce the whole history of the Ring too early. Honestly, even if he's trying to make the 5 movies as one, at the opening of FotR a first-time viewer shouldn't be any more certain of the Ring's true identity than Gandalf is. I could see using the Ring theme subtly bringing a sense of foreboding into Ring scenes, and maybe some general discussion of Rings of Power and Isuldur at White Council. Nothing more. I hope!

But the conversation with Smaug....that's the question, isn't it? That scene will be the first big reveal of Smaug the Magnificent, for which everybody has been waiting years, and to some extent the movie will stand or fall depending on how well the scene works. I'm certain PJ won't risk dimming that scene with swirls, and visually it's almost a bonus that Bilbo isn't visible to upstage the "Star". I'm excited to see how he handles it!

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Post by Eldorion Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:05 am

I think that PJ was mistaken to portray the "ring world" as he did for a number of reasons. Ideally I would have him just ignore that element of LOTR. While it would be inconsistent, the portrayal of the ring world wasn't consistent within LOTR anyway (as has been pointed out), so it almost doesn't matter. However, I find it more likely that PJ will show a much more toned down version of the ring world, perhaps hazy and distant, but not as sinister and without the omnipresent Eye in the background. Perhaps he or his fans will retroactively justify this by saying that Sauron wasn't yet powerful enough to be consciously seeking the Ring or some such nonsense. I think that just doing away with the idea that the Ring takes you to another "world" is the best solution, though.
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